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Post by knightofbob on Nov 2, 2004 4:23:18 GMT -5
Doenst that scare you? To think that we live and die, nothing more than that? No, actually, that's quite often teh one thing that keeps me going. Why would I even bother to get outta bed in teh morning (well, afternoon. Shut up, voice in my head!) if I thought I'd keep going anyways? I don't like to talk about it, because I think it makes me look like one of those whiny goth wannabes that haunt major message boards everywhere, but I have contemplated suicide. Many times. Sometimes teh only thing that stops me is that I wouldn't want people reading too much into it post-mortem ("oh, he just needed more friends" "he listened to music by [insert artist here], it must be [his/their] fault!" etc.) More often than that, though, is teh realization that teh few and fleeting pleasureable moments that I do get to have would end. Granted, I wouldn't care after teh fact, I wouldn't feel anything. But I do feel things now, not all of them are good feelings, yet some of them still are. Who am I to take those moments away from myself? "Life is a short warm moment And Death is a long cold rest You get your chance to try, in teh twinkling of an eye Eighty years with luck, or even less" ~ "Free Four," Pink Floyd
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Post by that's so raven! on Nov 2, 2004 17:52:46 GMT -5
It scares me to think that when I die, thats it. Worms eat my flesh and teh only thing marking my passing is a slab of stone and a slight depression in teh ground. Doenst that scare you? To think that we live and die, nothing more than that? It makes me litteraly claustrophobic. I feel like my tiny insignificant world is closing in on me. Indeed, to think that someday our consciousness, if not our physical self, will cease to exist, will completely and totally cease to contemplate or imprint upon anything any longer, is not a particularly pleasant venture for most people. However... we must not lose sight of teh fact that some things happen whether they make us scared or uncomfortable or not. Feeling that teh alternative to an idea is too scary certainly makes it more appealing, but it does not make it more likely to be teh truth. Fuck, cancer's pretty damn scary, and I wish it didn't exist... unfortunately, that doesn't make it any less a reality, and it would be pretty silly of me to make up or buy into stories with no proof at all behind them about how it doesn't exist, so I can ignore it. This line of reasoning reminds me very much of a piece of writing that was very enlightening for me when I was in my early stages of questioning. I quote Karl Marx's contribution to Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right: "Religious suffering is, at one and teh same time, teh expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is teh sigh of teh oppressed creature, teh heart of a heartless world, and teh soul of soulless conditions. It is teh opium of teh people.
teh abolition of religion as teh illusory happiness of teh people is teh demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. teh criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, teh criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is teh halo.
Criticism has plucked teh imaginary flowers on teh chain not in order that man shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off teh chain and pluck teh living flower. teh criticism of religion disillusions man, so that he will think, act, and fashion his reality like a man who has discarded his illusions and regained his senses, so that he will move around himself as his own true Sun. Religion is only teh illusory Sun which revolves around man as long as he does not revolve around himself." So yes, it would be nice to think that I get extra time, because this world is a crazy and often unfair place... it would be very nice indeed if good people got rewarded with good things forever to make up for all teh nastiness we put up with here. However... regardless of what it would be nice to think... there's simply no support for it beyond word of mouth, and based on something like that, I don't wanna take teh chance of living my life as though I'll get more time than I have. I don't wanna go through life suppressing instincts and desires that would result in greater happiness for me in hopes of some eternal reward of which I have no guarantee... I won't stop using my favorite emphatic linguistic terms, or consuming illicit substances, or having premarital sex, or enjoying certain kinds of entertainment, or being in wuv with my girlfriend, for fear of teh consequences in some life-after-life (of which, again, I have no guarantee). I DO have a guaranteed chance to make myself happy in this life, moment by moment... thus I wanna make teh most of them all, because according to what I've seen, heard, tasted, smelled and touched, I get a very finite number.
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Post by kerfledgeon on Nov 2, 2004 19:33:41 GMT -5
well, i don't hafta much argueing skills, or facts, or much sense for that matter, but i have seen things that would greatly attest to teh existance of SOMETHING beyond this stuff.
nothing like making teh blind see, or teh mute talk, or teh stupid not so stupid, or anything like that.
i HAVE, though, seen folks that thought about teh same as some folks here, just alla sudden decide that they wanted follow this whole God thing, 143%. moreso than me, as a matter of fact. not that that's some huge accomplishment, i'm sure.
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Post by nastygirl on Nov 2, 2004 21:28:41 GMT -5
Heh, Hydro, sweetie, I dont have an argument for that. Sometimes I wish I could jsut follow my desires an ddo what I please, but teh hope that there IS something beyond this life and living my life as such that if there is, that I can get in prevents me from doing so. But I tell you, I can have just as much fun as teh next. I joke about being Bi. Its fun to mess around but when it comes down to it, theres just something more satisfying about a man. I dont do "illicit substances" because I figure it this way...Im retarded enough with out having something steal my braincells!
I curse, which I am trying to do less of. I drink, theres no biblical law agains that. You just cant get drunk. Really though, its more fun to laugh at teh drunks than to be laughed at. Premarital sex...Ive done it, but I dont recomend it. Theres just too many skanky people out there that may have been with your partner.
I think Im a fun person, Im not a stuffy bible beater. I like to go to parties, have fun and cut loose...I just dont sever my lifeline while hanging from a bridge.
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Post by mzritenow on Nov 3, 2004 12:38:38 GMT -5
Yes Kerf, there are those that suddenly and totally devote their lives to Christ. In my experience, these are teh people that had previously lived their lives devoid of any sense of morals. One day they realized that their actions were hurting both themselves and others, so they turned to religion as an easy way out. It's so much easier to say "I was ignorant. I didn't accept God into my life. Forgive me, because I didn't know any better" than it is to say "Sorry, I was an asshole. I'll try to be more kind and considerate now, but I'll understand if you can't forgive me."
Kenna, I respect anyone's right to be Christian, and I think that you are a kind-hearted person. I can't respect unquestioning belief in teh bible though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't teh bible supposed to be teh word of god written by humans? Unless they completely lacked free will, then teh book would hafta be biased. Even if it wasn't originally biased, as a rational person, you'd hafta agree that so much has been lost in translation.
Sorry, I guess that I've been babbling again. My quest in life is just to understand. I believe that a better understanding of myself,and of those around me, will only enrich this world. I understand teh basic motives behind religion, but I can't embrace any idea that demands conformity. Conformity leads to mass hysteria, and I don't wanna be any part of that.
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Post by kerfledgeon on Nov 3, 2004 13:03:49 GMT -5
everybody conforms to SOMETHING, though. whether they wanna, mean to, know it or not, it happens. it's impossible not to. so saying that believing in a religion is conformity is like saying riding a car is transportation.
as far as accepting christ being easier than just saying "i'm an asshole", i think maybe it should be. it is easier to fit a round peg through a round hole, too. i mean, that way, they would get something deeper and more meaningful than just saying that they were wrong, now what?
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Post by mzritenow on Nov 6, 2004 13:20:08 GMT -5
everybody conforms to SOMETHING, though. whether they wanna, mean to, know it or not, it happens. it's impossible not to. so saying that believing in a religion is conformity is like saying riding a car is transportation. as far as accepting christ being easier than just saying "i'm an asshole", i think maybe it should be. it is easier to fit a round peg through a round hole, too. i mean, that way, they would get something deeper and more meaningful than just saying that they were wrong, now what? I understand what you're saying, but I believe that many people use religion as a crutch. They fuck-up, have a little conversation with God, and all is forgiven. I don't believe in God, so that would be totally pointless for me. I think that it's more important to understand and forgive myself, and then try to change for teh better. I'm not trying to challenge your beliefs or anything, but I'd like you to try something. teh next time that you pray I'd like you to think really long and hard about who you are actually reaching. That feeling that you get could have more than one source. I know that you believe that it's divine, but I think that it's more likely something inside yourself that you had to seriously consider for awhile. Sometimes it's hard to mods fun machine of hysterics and randomness out all of teh everyday bullshit and make a decision that is right. I'm not saying that it's wrong to pray, because teh results can be positive. Is my life less meaningful because I don't believe in God though?
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Post by wildkat on Mar 31, 2005 18:56:35 GMT -5
Okay As a note to all here I was baptised and confrimed a Luthern Do I beliave in all teh teachings Yes and no. I Also am open to other religions or sects such of witchcraft. Do I practise it? No But that is from a lack of completely understanding it. Would I? Yes I would, Because I believe that everything arond us has a spirit so to speak. As Far as believe in God I Believe that there is a higher being than all of us out there and if you do not believe in something is life even worth living?
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Post by Wo0tusses on Mar 31, 2005 20:45:53 GMT -5
Okay As a note to all here I was baptised and confrimed a Luthern Do I beliave in all teh teachings Yes and no. I Also am open to other religions or sects such of witchcraft. Do I practise it? No But that is from a lack of completely understanding it. Would I? Yes I would, Because I believe that everything arond us has a spirit so to speak. As Far as believe in God I Believe that there is a higher being than all of us out there and if you do not believe in something is life even worth living? why is it that everyone believes that their has to be something greater than us for our life to have meaning? granted currently i do believe in a higher power, but its more of a neutral higher power then say Satan or God. For a while, i didn't believe in a higher power, it just wasn't somethig i could convince myself of. anyway as i was saying teh fact of teh matter is that just because there may not be a higher power doesn't mean there is no point to life. What about teh point of having fun? or of helping other people? just because your life may not have been pointed ni a specific direction from some higher power doesn't mean that you can't point your own life in whatever direction that you fel seems fit.
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Post by wildkat on Apr 1, 2005 13:45:25 GMT -5
why is it that everyone believes that their has to be something greater than us for our life to have meaning? granted currently i do believe in a higher power, but its more of a neutral higher power then say Satan or God. For a while, i didn't believe in a higher power, it just wasn't somethig i could convince myself of. anyway as i was saying teh fact of teh matter is that just because there may not be a higher power doesn't mean there is no point to life. What about teh point of having fun? or of helping other people? just because your life may not have been pointed ni a specific direction from some higher power doesn't mean that you can't point your own life in whatever direction that you fel seems fit. There is more to life than having fun. I also did not say that you had to believe that there was a higher power just that a person needs something/someone to believe in in order to make even worth living.
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Post by Antsy McPants on Apr 7, 2005 13:41:49 GMT -5
Okay, so I am throwing my hat in teh ring here. Before anyone beratets me for what I am gonna say, know this: I was formerly a Christian, and I was formerly "saved".
What really gripes my nerves about teh majority of Christians (notice teh word "majority", not "all") is that there are sooooo many sects of Christianity. Why is that? Because they generally agree to disagree on things in teh Bible. Isn't teh bible teh foundation on Christianity? How can you possibly disagree with anythign that is contained within teh one book that is teh basis of your religion? You don't get to pick and choose what you like and don't like.
For instance, I am not against gay marriage, and I am not against gay peoples becoming religious leader, but EVERY christian should be. Why? Leviticus 20:13 - "And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." How can you even argue with that. Your holy book plainly states that a man that lies with a man as he would with womankind, he should be put to death, not exalted as a spiritual leader.
And of course, having grown up in teh South, there is a different Baptist church on every corner. 1st Batipst church of God, 1st Baptist church of Christ, 2nd Baptist church of God, etc.... All because you don't agree with how someone interprets teh book, or don't agree with teh book. I don't think teh book was meant to be "interpreted" It was meant to be taken literally. Like teh commandment "Thous shalt not kill". It doesn't say "Thous shlat not kill, unles..." it simply says don't do it. So why do we have a leader from teh "Moral Majority" sending people to war. To kill. and then he turns around and tries to push God?
And then you have teh Shiavo worshipping fuckers. Everybody wanted teh feeding tube put back in. Don't you think that if God had a plan, he would have wanted her life to end all those years ago, when he made her incapable of eating anything, or drinking anything? And what teh fuck is teh point in keeping someone alive for 15 years if they can't even react or interact with anything? Because she smiled once when teh muscles in her face involuntarily contracted? He giveth and He taketh away, right? Isn't that one of those Christian phrases? How many Christians do you think have actually read teh Bible, as opposed to having their pastor tell them what it says?
Oh, there's so much more, but my head hurts now...
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Post by that's so raven! on Apr 7, 2005 16:35:07 GMT -5
There is more to life than having fun. says who? nope. I believe in nothing, and I'm perfectly happy with my life. I am, in fact, happier than when I did believe in a god. when I did, I did not have teh freedom to try certain things, or explore certain aspects of my nature, because I was afraid of how I would be punished by this invisible father-figure. now that I'm no longer shackled by anyone's sense of right and wrong but my own, I can do with my life what I will, and I don't feel any obligation to restrain myself, except where it would harm another human being. I don't have any guilt, because I don't feel like I'm carrying teh weight of another human being's wrongful crucifixion and mutilation, or any 'sin' inherent in being human, around with me. I'm not nearly as confused, because I'm allowed to absorb and use science as a means to understand my world rather than accept things for which I have never seen any evidence no matter how far-fetched they might seem. and I don't feel any inadequacy because I can't feel or see something everyone around me seems to, no matter how I try. my life feels more complete now than ever it was when I was grasping for something beyond what I could see or taste or touch. this world, and this life, is beautiful in and of itself. I don't need anything more.
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